JaniNOla asks why decent women so often fall for jerky guys. This question certainly deserves a heading all its own.
What does the reptilian/survivalist part of our brain do best? Figures out the best way to survive and propagate. I submit that there is something about jerky guys that subliminally promises to Decent Women a better chance of getting what they want. Perhaps this is Protector/Alpha Male dominance (GoodGirlieGirls are allllllways drawn to this type of JerkyGuy); perhaps it is verility factor (chaCHING! says the female reptilian brain: "this male is fertile!"); hence a biological/sexual advantage to the penilically-mercurial male. . .
:P
What does the reptilian/survivalist part of our brain do best? Figures out the best way to survive and propagate. I submit that there is something about jerky guys that subliminally promises to Decent Women a better chance of getting what they want. Perhaps this is Protector/Alpha Male dominance (GoodGirlieGirls are allllllways drawn to this type of JerkyGuy); perhaps it is verility factor (chaCHING! says the female reptilian brain: "this male is fertile!"); hence a biological/sexual advantage to the penilically-mercurial male. . .
:P
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Colorado
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Ok, sure, the sex is good...but if you have wonderfully beautiful guilt-free children with that weasel you are tied to him for the rest of your life. No way out, even if you find a way out.
It just doesn't make sense to me. -
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I find in alot of situations the woman will leave a Alpha-Male after she has had the desired amount of children and will look for a "Nice Guy" to help her raise them, sure she is tied to him but He's the "CRAZY Daddy" who winds up in jail.
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Think Con Man or Bully; Not Alpha Male.
Jerky Guys, mean men, credit schemers, assholes that don't know they are, lazy users, do not usually walk up & say
"HI I'm an asshole will you put up with anything I dish out?"
They have learned somewhere how to manipulate people to serve them & serve their momentary gratification pleasures. Con men, abusers, chronic adulterers, pedophiles, rip off artists, even alcholics & drug addicts, gamblers, pornogrphy addicts, credit card thieves, or just plain lazy muthas, can present a 'Normal Persona"', at least long enough to get in tight.
It's their job! It is how they veiw life & get by.........
Even an 'honest' one that says "ohh darlin' I'm so bad, this is how I ammm, but I love you, but I'll understand if you don't want to stay cz I' really a bad boy...." is/will pick on the naivete of the mothering love instinct (ie to care for & heal) in women. Even Women who are bad themselves & think it (the badness) is great fun & participate can be labelled as a Naivete' for lack of full disclosure & understanding of the wholer world of possibilities.
& why shouldn't a woman stay; & return again & again if she gets the courage to take care of herself & leave?
Society in general supports the Bullies & Con men of the World & will call any woman or child with the Courage to walk away
"a poor Victim". "oh why did You stay?", You the victim should change, You the Victim needs to do this or that"!
Hell, if the Bully is gettin away with his behavior & approved by no one telling him No, stop, wrong but more likely "hey dude how's it hanging, you did what? oh hehehe wow man......"
But how often will society go to the Bully & say:
"You were Wrong, Bozo!!" "You should Stop this Bad behavior! if for no other reason than it continues the wrong of general society & makes Men in general look Bad!!"
& yeahhhh it goes both ways as it seems being a user Bully has no gender, age, race, or level of when where & how boundaries.
Women rarely stand up to other women bullies in social situations, for all their tough girl talk. & if a woman does speak a piece than she's a Bitch or a Whining Victim rather than a Protector or Heroine.
So I think if We all start giving positive recognition to people of everyday courage & healthy thinking we can change the Neandrathal mind set that should not be matched up with todays communication tools.
No is a powerful word. But so is Yes. Yes You did good & You will & can do more instead of oohhh why didn't you.......
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Unsu...
Perhaps because I was such a GOOD girl (at least until my divorce six years ago), I find myself particularly attracted to men who have passion, style, and a bit of an edge. Oh, yeah, and superior intelligence, too. Try finding *that* all in one man!
I know that I am not going to find the man I desire at church socials (even if I were to attend such things), in the produce aisle of the supermarket, or at Barnes & Noble. So I have gone the online route. I have had dates with eight or ten men whom I have "met" online, but few, if any, of them got past that critical fourth date. I have often found them to be losers, too "nice", dumb as a box of rocks, lacking in personal hygiene, *not* lacking in annoying habits, or any combination of the above.
Two weeks ago, I sent a "Dear John" letter to a guy I was kinda sorta seeing (i.e., two dates). He had made a fatal mistake a few days earlier when he pleaded poverty with *me*. (I have been involuntarily unemployed since December. Meanwhile, he had previously claimed that he's a recording artist who was *this* close to signing a contract with Warner Brothers, which would give him a $500,000 advance.)
On Thursday evening, while I was attending a school event, he left a message on my answering machine claiming that this alleged contract with Warner Brothers has just about come through. I don't care if he's getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in advance. I still don't like him. I had originally rationalized that if my lot in life is to be unhappy *anyway*, I might as well be unhappy and rich rather than unhappy and poor. But I would rather be unhappy and alone rather than unhappy with someone else.
Oh, am I rambling again? Sorry. I suppose that part of me is waiting for my knight in shining leather to whisk me away on his noble motorcycle and ride into the sunset.
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Yeah, I can do fine making myself unhappy without having to be taken by surprised by someone else's tricks........}:o
But I did have a girlfriend long ago that cherided me for at least picking Rich assholes cz "you only have to stay for awhile..."
& She got herself a big ol handsome rich basketbal star that adored her & her big sex ass!!!
Years later I saw her at the gym & I'm working out Hard cz my 'music star husband that always ends up drunk & blowing contracts (sad sad story) has again & she's all stretching in nice velour with her hair just right style for excercise with only her workout casual diamond jewlery on & says "It is so good to see you but really hon just bcz yr poor you don't have to look it!!"
I slunk away on my sweat........
By then I was driving a Taxi in LA with my drunk musician husband that Was Not on Tour where he's suppose to be instead of driving a Taxi for a living & I pick up a Senator & his Young gorgeous smart wife & she says as they get out at their xstory penthouse on the Beack cliff & she says, "Hey I make him Happy & He's sending me through UCLA which I never would have been able on my own. We like each other's straight honesty & in a few years I'll be Rich, beautiful single & educated!"
So I slunk home.........
Some women are intelligent & some are fkg smart.
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some of the best feedback i've ever heard from the sisterhood. thank you decimus.
i've labeled it the feed em, finance and fuck em syndrome and i must have worn it across my chest in neon. it's an age old good girl/bad boy thing. tom petty sang it well. in my case, it landed me in jail, set up by a bad boy. Yea, they call it that "naive". i look back and call it "stupid", my therapist calls it "vulnerable" and girlfriends call them ""predators". whatever. Mr. nice guy i guess was too boring when i married him, so i had to go sow my oats with the bad boys. but what i didnt realize was how bad, bad can get. and the old you can love a " rich man just as easily as a poor one " well, that didn't come as easily for me cause i was to busy looking for a ""streetwise" man. give me a fucking break. i was just looking for an extended party. Still i couldn't find the counrty club bad boy or hells angels bad boy. nope just a wannabe outlaw who sunk me so fast in a world so slimey, most women would reconsider the church dude or supermarket guy in a heartbeat. these days, at my age raising a daughter, in recovery, i would rather counsel these guys screwed up kids than ever be with one. i figure one day at the old folks homes will be full of bad boys eager to play pinochole or spades if i ever want a "playing" partner. -
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That's just it! They keep playing their Game until the end.
The only change they make is to refine their techniques so they don't get caught that way again.......
I had a 95yo that was considered 'gone' mentally & doubled over from strokes & arthritis so he had to be bathed in a special lower him by crane tub as soon as we were alone in the lil room offer me his monthly Social Security etc to rescue him & escape & live with him!!! True! He wanted "just a little sex before he died".
I had to pretend to leave him alone stranded in the tub to get him to shut up cz you couldn't complain to the nurses as he had them convinced he couldn't speak/think/understand so aides did Everything for him............
Sorry Decimus but after a lifetime of interaction with all types of these men there is No way i think it is sublimnal on their part. They learn at an early age how to manipulatemommy & it just keeps on keepin on. The only thing they aren't aware of is how/when where after awhile & they get caught repeating themselves.
I know one for 35 yrs & he finds a new bite bout every 2 yr cycle; that 2yrs from hello to him calling me & "sniffing around" cz I told him to go pee on the walls around town & he could go home to his own bed knowing his territory was secured.
&Gypsydaze, I remember the 1st time a cop looked at me standing in my lil bikini with handcuffs behind my back & called me "naive"; ooohhhh I had a fit & stood up to him & said No I'm not! I know what I'm doing...... Now I do look back & say Yes I was Naive & did Stupid things. But I wasn't stupid, but the people that helped me get there I think were.......
Being naive isn't bad kharma, or sensitive, or believing; you know what I mena?
It's the ones that are aware & doing under the cloak of their narcissistic needs that do not care who or what they waste that are the Bad.
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thanks gi gi-i was a cool fool to be naive, doncha know. and i suppose as my mother has often said, and i have come to agree, men want to marry mommies. that's why they have mistresses on the side. at least that justified her "marriage". men want mothers, lovers, whores, steppford wifes, partners, possessions, free thinkers, all rolled into one 38-24-36, size 8. but they wont say that. just like we wont say we want brad pitt, sean penn tom cruise, sonny barger, and say decimus all rolled into a packet. one thing i know is too often i settle for less. and those are issues i've spent half a life time working on. yet even those" good guys" are still tied to the umbilical chord. it's just part of the laws of nature. we brought you in, by god, baby, we can take you out. how many men will tell you, their #1 reason for sitting in jail, rehab, AA, a bar, court, on and on...is a women........when will they ever learn......
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There was a cartoon done in the early 70s called the Point with Harry Nilsson & Ringo Starr & in it was 'The Rockman'. His inital line was "Looks like you been meesin' with the bees."
But better was
"Yous see what ya wanna see, & yous hear what ya wanna hear."
I think thats what too many of us do. We see what we want to see in a partner or friend & we don't see the inherent flaws that might cause damage. This is good if you both have had the same assertiveness training workshops & follow Buddha nature.......
but can be problematic otherwise.
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ok i have rethought some of my feminist remarks and feel i owe a an explanantion as to the frailities of why we as women fall for "jerky guys". IMO, it's not that they are all jerks. there are some pretty lame women, sad to say out there aslso, that keep going back to the same lame brain men. call it the domestic abuse cycle or whatever you want, but by now, i have seen it over and over, there is so much help out there for women now that is available, they just just arent ready to change, even tho they will go to jail for the guy, take the verbal abuse, take the fall, become dealers, community property, and i've also seen them set up their old men. granted some of these women have had abusive backgrounds that they cant get past, but others , that hasn't been the case. they just keep on taking it. and they know the talk. they seen the counselors. or been to jail and had plenty of idle time to chat it up. they just "love" the guy, or "need" the guy. the co-dpendence is so entrenched, they will go to any pathetic length to tag along for a bone, or use the guy for a free ride i have a hard time with these sisters and many are my friends. and i have had to bite my tongue, cause i made the mistake of once, and only once, opening my mouth and when she wenty back to him, i was the enemy. oops. never did that again. that's when irealized. there are actually less of me out there then there are of women like the one's i am talking about. many women seek out and stay in relationships for various reasons, money, secruity, prestige, children, loneliness, fear of independence, etc. the list is endless. but the one thing i find rare is they aren't in it after the intial period for love. that's pretty standard. and i dont say when the warm and fuzzies are over you get out, but when it's clear the relationship is hopeless, we as women have to learn to cut our losses and get out, and for that matter, so do the guy. or they too may wind up set up, wiped up, bobbitized, etc.... i hope i didnt offend the sisters. but i felt i was slamming the bro's and that wasnt fair either. if i find a jerky guy, hey that's on me.
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I agree . It is on us to help ourselves.
But I do open my mouth; even to a woman working at Long's with 4 kids etc......... No bad stop get out!
But I still maintain that between Society's conciousness & media attention to the murder as glory the majority of abused people see it as normal, even glamorized.
I myself who has lived it, through it, become really pissed off at film makers that puts out some grotesque barbarous rape seen or movie along masochistic lines through their voyeurism of art!
Here dude let me torure you & tell me if it hurts.
It still comes down to more people, men & women, saying No abuse & bullyism is not cool; be it Muslim prisoners or starstruck children or women tring to raise a family on pretense wages at a pretense sales manager associate job.
It's the support that can be given Before it becomes bloody. -
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I think "The Beauty and The Beast" sends a really fucked up message to young women.
- Mary -
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my daughter loved that movie. when she was two she could recite word by word every single line. i am trying to see how it fits. i see that as a compassionate story of how exactly what is good inside of a person not the veneer. early shrek. the beast wasnta jerky guy. it was the creepy town hunk all the girls swooned over who was the looser, just what we are talking about. maybe i missed something.
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